On the latest episode of Chats with Chip, Ann McCain of McCain Strategies joined Chip to discuss strategies for hiring and integrating Millennial employees into PR and communication agencies. Their conversation covers the differences between Millennials and previous generations, tactics to implement Millennial talent, and tips on hiring these younger professionals.
Chip opened the conversation by asking Ann if Millennials truly differ from other generations. According to Ann, the multitude of research and conversations happening around this generation indicates that a difference does exist.
One of the marked differences between the Millennials and prior generations is the access to technology. Ann states that Gen Xers “feel a little ripped off” about the lack of access to this technology during the early stages of their careers, but she recognizes that this technology can be problematic because it allows managers to have near-constant, immediate access to the Millennial employee. According to Ann, however, this access motivates younger employees to restructure their idea of the workplace and hours.
This concept of flexibility resurfaces later in the conversation, specifically as it relates to younger professionals entering their first full-time position. Ann believes that one misconception about Millennials is their motivation to complete tasks. Employers often feel skeptical about hiring a first-time employee, as they fear they’ll have to spend too much time coaching them, but the structure of a first-time job can be valuable to young professionals.
Ann finds that many employers struggle with the hiring and onboarding process. Managers often fail to outline expectations for younger employees, especially prior to meetings. Chip agrees that organizations often lack an effective onboarding process, as well as pre-meeting expectation planning. Regardless of the age of the employees, Chip states that they can benefit from better pre-meeting outlines. Ann agrees, stating that outlining expectations allows Millennials to gain perspective and understand their role within the organization.
Chip agrees with this idea, but notes that if they’re going to be treated as equals by explaining how their role contributes to the organization, they must also be treated as equals when discipline or criticism is necessary. Later in the conversation, they delve further into how to deliver criticism. Ann explains that people often feel uncomfortable criticizing, but it’s necessary for improvement. To minimize the discomfort, Ann recommends giving criticism verbally, either in person or over the phone, and doing it in a timely fashion. Similar to pre-meeting planning, connecting criticism to the bigger picture is important. Explaining the reason for the critique allows the Millennial to understand why they should avoid repeating it.
As they neared the end of the episode, Chip asked Ann for tips on hiring Millennial talent. Her answer reiterated concepts that appeared earlier in the conversation, specifically focusing on communication and outlining expectations to understand if the young professional will fit in well with the organization.
Listen to the whole episode and check out the full transcript to learn more about strategies to integrate Millennial talent and work well with these younger professionals.
Please review the audio before quoting to confirm accuracy of this unverified transcript.
|Chip Griffin:||Hi, this is Chip Griffin, and my guest today is Ann McCain of McCain Strategies. Welcome to the show, Ann.|
|Ann McCain:||Thanks, Chip. Glad to be with you.|
|Chip Griffin:||It is great to have you here, and I’m looking forward to a good discussion about millennials in the PR workplace, but before we get to that, can you tell us a little bit more about McCain Strategies?|
|Ann McCain:||Absolutely. It’s a labor of love that I’ve been focused on for several years now, but it came out of years of work in the political and public affairs space, Chip, and I found I spent most of my time working with teams, small and large, motivating staff and helping people be better performers on the job. And as I was about 20 years into that mission, I found increasingly, I was spending so much time around millennials in the workplace, and I was witnessing a real clash of the generations in the workplace, and suddenly I decided, there’s a lot of focus that’s happening around this issue, but I really think I can be helpful to teams, both to the millennials and to Gen-Xers and baby boomers, and help them be more successful in the multi-generational workplace. And that evolved into McCain Strategies, focusing on leadership development, on culture work inside of organization, and on focusing on high-performance teams, so that we can help, hopefully, have more successful outcomes in the workplace between these generations.|
|Chip Griffin:||That’s a great segue into the actual conversation. You know, as I get older, I manage more people, I sit there, and I say, “Gosh, those millennials, ugh. You know, they’re so hard to work with.” Is there really something different about millennials, or is it simply that every generation, as they get older and take management roles, says that about the next generation?|
|Ann McCain:||Well, I love it, and I feel your frustration, Chip, because that’s really how I got here too. I sometimes like to describe myself as a formerly frustrated Gen Xer who now loves to work with millennials. I talk about this topic with so many people, and if I’m speaking with a Gen Xer or a baby boomer — or, frankly, even a member of the Silent Generation, up in his 70s — people will say often that this seems like an entitled generation, and they are frustrated with what’s happening in the workplace and what’s around us. And I look at this and I say, exactly to your point, this isn’t the first time we’ve seen generations clash. We can go back to the beginning of time, and any of us with parents or families can certainly understand that generations have lots of differences, and there’s going to be a natural clash at times.
But why is it that we are talking so much about this generation? They have captured our attention, they’re the most researched, the most talked about. So I agree, something has to be different here, and frankly, what’s different is the landscape that is influenced by so many different things. And I think about millennials, and I go back to that word, when people say they are “entitled,” and I often encourage people to think about that a little bit differently. Consider millennials, rather than being entitled, consider them as empowered, and when you make that shift, and that mindset changes to considering them as empowered, something might feel a little bit different to you in the workplace.
So, what I mean by that is millennials have long had a platform for communicating their own opinions, their ideas. This is obviously mostly due to social media, but not always. Parents and professors, and the list goes on and on, that we have seen millennials encouraged to speak up. So we should not be surprised that when millennials first darkened the doorstep, more than a decade-plus ago, in the workplace, that we might see something that is different, different from what we’ve seen before as Gen Xers and baby boomers.
|Chip Griffin:||You talk about the empowerment, and sort of the ability and the encouragement to share their ideas, and I think back to when I was back in, say, high school and college, and you had to sort of scratch and claw your way to get anything published. And I’ve always enjoyed seeing my words in writing and my opinion shared; I’m not very shy about that. But there is a huge difference today in the way that you can get those opinions out there, and I do sometimes wonder what it would’ve been like if I’d had those tools and those resources available to me back then.|
|Ann McCain:||Absolutely, and Chip, this is something that’s actually overlooked, or it’s looked at often from one side, so I think the same thing. Do we all remember just slogging to the library to look everything up and try and figure things out? And then, if I had a paper to write, who was really going to read it? My professor and a few other people. I wasn’t published, I wasn’t getting the word out. And so it seems as though if we’re Gen Xers, we feel a little ripped off that we haven’t gotten that attention or that platform.
On the flip side, with technology allowing millennials to be heard so easily, and to have so many different platforms for sharing their point of view, it also has created a downside, which is millennials have never known a time when they are not on call. And by that, I mean when they go home from work and leave the office, it’s always been that their boss can get a hold of them, that the world continues, that it can be done on vacation, or at any time. We tended to check out and go home, and there was a real break between the workplace and at home, usually. That doesn’t mean our bosses couldn’t find us — they could — but it was a bit different.
And so, while it sounds fantastic to have all these tools available to us, there’s another side to it which says millennials have had to learn to manage differently, which is often why we might hear millennials talk about flexibility in the workplace, and be some of the greatest promoters of that issue, because they don’t often see a difference in the 24-hour clock and break it down between “work” and “home.” Much of what we see people doing today is blending workplace to home to vacation to travel. You’re always on, you’re always accessible and available.
So that’s this downside, or this difficult piece to manage, but it makes sense, then, people would be pushing back a bit more, asking for some flexibility, and wanting to see a workplace that might work a little bit better with their personal life. But if somebody is doing a great deal of writing, like you said, Chip, with … Whether it’s somebody who has a blog, or somebody who’s frankly on social media all the time, it does create an expectation that they can speak at any time, all the time, and about anything, and this is where it gets really interesting for employers. I mean, how do we handle that as a business when it’s not always okay for everybody to talk all the time?
|Chip Griffin:||Right. I want to go to this point, though, that they’ve grown up differently and have … You know, have not had the opportunity to sort of be turned off at the end of the day, so to speak, as we all were, probably starting our careers, where yes, your boss could get you, but golly, it was awfully hard sometimes, particularly without a cell phone. So you might come home to that answering machine message at midnight after you had been out with friends having dinner, or perhaps drinks, or whatever, and so you … You didn’t like getting that message at that point. But I guess my question is, for millennials, since they don’t know any different, shouldn’t it be easier for them than it is for us who have had to make that transition into “always on”?|
|Ann McCain:||That’s such a great question, and it’s true. Absolutely. This is a change for all of us who are Gen Xers and baby boomers. We have endured the change in technology on the job, so we have had to learn all these things. I’ve had great conversations in focus groups and with millennials about the role they play in educating some of their colleagues who are older about everything from how to properly use their cell phone to all kinds of different technology. So as we’ve learned it on the job, it has been difficult, and in the meantime, we’re hearing, today, some people taking the position of going all the way to say now the employers are charged with the responsibility, having to sort of fill the gap and do the work, whatever may have been lacking in parenting, or what has been created in our environment due to technology, and the changes. And because it’s been different for millennials, that somehow now employers are forced to have to close that gap.
I think if you’re [inaudible 00:08:27], that’s awfully tough to hear, and it’s even more difficult to figure out how to solve. I’m not sure a lot of businesses feel comfortable stepping in to do the parenting, perhaps, that was done differently for those millennial employees. So it becomes a real choice that employers have to make, and say, “What is it that I’m willing to do to evolve as a business? How do I reach this audience?” Because in the end, this is our workforce, and when put to work, and when a millennial is motivated and skilled and well-educated, which so many of them are, these are ideal members to be part of our teams. The challenge becomes in how do we manage them day-to-day, and how do we introduce them to our culture, but how do we also promote it … Or push ourselves, I should say, to evolve, and to not change our culture, but to adapt to the changes that have taken place?
But it’s, no doubt about it, is a real challenge for organizations, and the larger the company gets sometimes, the tougher it is, and we see that a lot of people are particularly frustrated with it. Mostly what I hear, Chip, is people saying, “I have all these millennials who work for me, and they keep quitting, and I don’t know what it is that I can do. I ask them what they want, and it’s never enough.” And so I find that a lot of organizations are throwing up their hands and saying, “We have now just got in the habit of churning through employees.” And that’s not really a sustainable model.
|Chip Griffin:||No, it’s not, and I think the parenting piece that you mentioned is an important consideration here. One of my long-held beliefs, even before really dealing with millennials, was that I didn’t want to be the boss of a first-time full-time employee. I really wanted them to get trained somewhere else on the basics of, you know, how do you work in an office environment, before I had to deal with that. So that sort of pre-dates millennials, but I do think that it’s particularly important nowadays because people do view the flexibility that they want to see as so important. I think it’s really hard to have that flexibility if it’s your first job, if you’re in your first few years in the workforce, because you lose out on some of that experience of having a nine-to-five job in an office that serves as, I think, a helpful foundation when you have more flexibility later on.|
|Ann McCain:||I think that’s right, and frankly, that first job can provide some much-needed structure, and what I think that we sometimes misunderstand about millennials is actually, very motivated to check things off the list. Right? If you think about it, millennials have been so coached throughout their lifetime. They have been coached literally by coaches, but parents who’ve been alongside them. Of course, people, they’re being coached on how to take standardized tests, and how to prepare for college, and [inaudible 00:11:21], guided all along, and just checking one box and moving on to the next. And so it shouldn’t surprise us that when they arrive in the workplace, suddenly there’s no coach, it is up to that manager. So, Chip, I don’t blame you. Nobody really wants that job of having to take on the brand-new employee who not only is new and needs to learn the ropes about the job, but she may be stepping into a brand new world for the first time, having no idea what she’s stepping into.
So that structure inside of the organization actually can be very good for the employee. Where I think a lot of employers frankly go wrong is in that recruiting, hiring, and onboarding process. We make all these assumptions. I mean, you and I probably know, well, if I’m in a meeting with a client, and I’m brand new, I’m probably not going to say a whole lot, because I don’t have 20 years of experience in this business. However, it won’t surprise you to hear me say that that actually happens quite a bit. You might be in a meeting, and you might have junior staff or team members with you who are there, in your mind, to simply get an experience and learn about the business, yet when a question comes up from a client, or from somebody else in the room, a millennial jumps right in and starts answering the question.
Now, some of us may start to cringe and panic. The first thing is, we would say … We as Gen Xers or baby boomers might say, “I never would have done that. I would’ve kept my head down, I would’ve taken notes, I would’ve listened, but suddenly there’s someone who’s 22 in the room who’s responding to a question and giving her opinion.” When you are the employer, after you put on your oxygen mask in that situation and stop panicking — because that does concern a lot of people, especially if you’ve got a client or somebody in the room — you have to step back and look at what actually happened in that scenario. Why would this person speak up?
And I go back to my earlier point. These millennials have been empowered, so at no time has someone told someone not to talk or not to an express opinion, and so many platforms have been provided for them to express opinions. This is just another one. It happens to be a meeting, it happens to be a meeting with a client or a customer, and what happened there in that case, probably, was something missed in the onboarding process, because you or I, Chip, would assume that somebody very junior on the staff or on the team would never think of speaking up like that, because we didn’t.
So having to have this understanding of what it’s like inside the workplace for a millennial is critical, because this is where so many mistakes start happening. And often, I go back to clients and ask them, “Tell me a bit about your onboarding process. What did that include?” And often, I don’t hear people saying, “I gave an explanation of our culture about what it’s like to interact with our clients, or how we go about meetings, or the best way to approach things.” So that’s where people can get themselves into trouble, but often, I find out it’s because people have made assumptions.
|Chip Griffin:||Right, and I think the honest truth is that most organizations don’t have much of an onboarding process at all, other than, you know, to have HR fill out the paperwork, throw them at their desk, and say, “Let’s go.” So that’s where the problem starts, and … But I agree, and it’s not just, I think, the onboarding at the start, it’s … That goes to … To me, if you’re in a professional services firm of any sort, if you’re going to have a meeting with a client or an important vendor or something like that, the meeting needs to be pre-gamed. You know, there needs to be a conversation amongst the attendees, even if it’s for two minutes on the walk down the street to the office that you’re going to, about, you know, “What are the expectations? What are we trying to accomplish here? Who’s going to do the most of the talking? Who do you take your cues from?”
So I think that it’s … And that goes beyond just millennials, right? I mean, I’ve seen plenty of times where I’ve had Gen Xers or baby boomers in a meeting with me, and all of a sudden, they go off the reservation in something that they say in a client meeting, because there was no conversation beforehand about how we wanted to proceed with it, so …
|Ann McCain:||I [inaudible 00:15:25] so much. The pre-game is critical, and it’s also … Actually, in the case of millennials, you actually may get more out of it than you think. I know a lot of people say, “I don’t have time, this is such a pain. Why am I babysitting? Why do I have to hold someone’s hand and tell them in a meeting, before the meeting, how the meeting’s supposed to go?” Well, like you said, that is not something that is reserved for millennials, because we see mistakes happen across the board when there is inadequate preparation.
But one of the benefits, if you are doing that with a millennial, is you’re actually probably going to be able to paint a little bit more of the big picture for them, and this is something that can be very helpful in talking to a younger generation who doesn’t understand, if they are a cog in the wheel, if they are just knocking out spreadsheets and sitting at their computer all day, they may feel very disconnected from what the mission of the organization is. One of those pre-game conversations is a great way to tell them about what the purpose of the meeting is and where that may go. Why is that important to the business or the team? What’s going to come out of this? What do we think success looks like?
And when somebody has a better understanding of that, they’re usually excited to be part of the team, they’ll ask questions, and they’ll get clarification about what is this meeting supposed to be like, and how is it supposed to unfold, and then there’s the place where you can talk about not diving in or answering questions, or saying, “Hey, I’m glad you’re at this meeting. The reason is, I want you to meet this client, and I want you to hear more about the work that we’re going to be doing. That said, we have a limited window of time, and so we’re going to structure how we ask the questions and interact, but don’t think, because you aren’t engaged in some of the dialogue, that your presence isn’t important. We need you there, and I want you to learn from this.” When that is said, that’s a lot … That paints a much clearer picture for somebody, and a better understanding of why someone’s in a meeting, and hopefully it reduces the risk of somebody speaking out of turn or taking the conversation in the wrong direction.
|Chip Griffin:||Right, and I think in an ideal world, you know, you want to embrace the empowerment that millennials or any one else has. You don’t want to silence it, you want to try to figure out how you can take advantage of it, because there are a lot of great ideas that those fresh voices bring to the table when you’re meeting with clients or doing things internally. Those perspectives are incredibly beneficial. Their experiences have been different, and so … You know, it seems to me that the more that you treat them as equals, and that’s a two-way street, though, right? You’re treating them as equals in that you want to solicit their advice, but at the same time, that means that they also have to be admonished when they make a mistake. They need to be coached into how not to make that mistake again. So as long as you’re looking at it that way, I think that is a way that you can get more out of your millennial employees.|
|Ann McCain:||I think that’s true, and I think the other piece of this that we don’t talk about a lot is about the relationship-building. To a lot of us who are Gen Xers and baby boomers, we are accustomed to having to build relationships, our businesses are built around it, and we’re very comfortable doing that kind of work. For millennials who have spent a fair amount of time, obviously, behind their laptops and on their phones and on social media, relationships are being built a little bit differently, so the way someone shows up when she’s on FaceTime versus how she may show up in her boss’s office or at the table for a client meeting may be different. There is likely more anxiety or discomfort, or a lack of confidence in some cases.
And so this is something where I think we don’t give it a lot of attention, but the millennial generation does struggle a bit with building relationships, and that coupled with some instant gratification, “I want everything right this moment,” we see things break down, and it’s not a strength sometimes, a lot of these individuals. So helping them connect, and usually a way to do that is in one-on-one conversations. And this is where it gets tough again, because we say, as bosses and managers and leaders, we sometimes say, “I just don’t have time for this,” but it is an investment that you will make up front that often will produce great benefits down the road, because you’ve spent some time with someone who is new to the job and needs to better understand about how to build relationships.
But it’s not something that the generation is particularly good at. I hear a lot of actual millennials, if you believe this, Chip, will tell me and say, “Well, my boss seems socially awkward,” and I think that’s very interesting. They’re saying that about their Gen X or baby boomer boss, and I’m thinking back, but actually, I think a lot of people see millennials as socially careless, and I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way, but in this willingness to speak up so fast, so quickly, without much of a filter. And that is very frightening to an employer who wants to put team members out in front of clients or in the public, so the social engagement and the relationship-building is a really key piece, but just the way it would be also for any human relationship. It takes some time and some effort, and that’s something that I encourage employers and clients to put some time and effort into.
|Chip Griffin:||Well, the fear element, I think, is quite important here, and particularly as millennials tend to use social media much more so than Gen Xers or baby boomers, there’s always that fear of, you know, “What are they going to say? What are they going to do on social media that may reflect on me, the employer?” And as I’ve spent time coaching people on the use of digital tools over the years, I always talk about things like my “no tweeting after midnight” rule, “no social media at bars,” things like that. But how do you … Actually, I guess my favorite line has always been, you know, “If you’re too drunk to drive, you’re too drunk to tweet.”|
|Ann McCain:||I agree.|
|Chip Griffin:||So how do you deal with that, though, both as an employer and as a millennial? Because that’s … I think that’s sort of near the top of the list of most people’s concerns, when you dig right down to it. You know, are they going to go so far off the reservation that it’s going to be a problem?|
|Ann McCain:||One of the ways is this great trick, that you can play up to the fact that millennials are very comfortable talking about themselves, and again, I mean that with a … And I say it with a smile on my face. But I often ask a millennial to think back to a time when they have made a misstep. Usually it’s around social media, when they have received some sort of negative impact based on what they have tweeted or said or done in that environment, and everyone has a story about that, because they’ve been so engaged, and they really are the pioneers of social media, and living in that world for most of their lives. I mean, we could argue Gen Z is really going to be the true fully digital-native generation, but millennials have been out there, and as a result, we have all been watching them, and we’ve watched them make mistakes, so most of them can recall that.
And so then I ask, “Can you transfer that now to the workplace, and can you think about what something may have done for someone’s personal brand in a bad moment, think what that may do to the organization’s brand? And what does that mean? It no longer affects just you. It affects hundreds, thousands of people, because it’s someone else’s action.” But often, if I start talking about them, an experience they’ve had, they can relate a little bit more to how that could go poorly in the workplace when they aren’t thinking on their feet and they’re making poor decisions. But it’s tough, because again, it’s a big cultural difference, because you and I never had to grow up making decisions that quickly, usually. That doesn’t mean that baby boomers and millennials didn’t … Or, excuse me, baby boomers and Gen Xers didn’t make mistakes growing up — we all did — but the world wasn’t watching. So I like to have them remember something that went awry, and tell me how that felt and what that meant, and now to apply that to the workplace and understand it from that perspective.
|Chip Griffin:||I think that’s great insight and advice, and I guess another one of the concerns that I’ve had with millennials over the years is being able to deliver constructive criticism and have it taken appropriately. How do you deliver constructive criticism to millennials in such a way that it’s not, you know, “You just don’t know what you’re talking about,” or sort of that reaction that you often get? How do you help them improve? Is it really just helping them to see that it’s in their interest, or is there just a different technique that’s involved, or what’s your advice?|
|Ann McCain:||Well, I’ll go back to this idea of the big picture, and there are a lot of pieces to this that can make it smooth. Some of these, of course, will apply to anyone, not just millennials, but they’re particularly helpful. Feedback in general is not something we all are comfortable doing, and so it’s understandable, so we tend to sometimes just brush it under the rug, and we don’t mention the issue at all. That, of course, makes it worse. Doing it in a timely fashion is good, and doing it face-to-face, if you can, with someone is much better. The emails, calling somebody on the carpet, and yanking them into your office in some sort of a way that maybe seems like punishment typically isn’t going to go over as well, because remember, we may have received that as employees when we were starting out, but millennials aren’t so accustomed to that. And again, remember, they’ve been empowered, and they’ve been asked for their advice and their opinions, so this goes against the grain a bit to approach it aggressively, but doing it in a timely fashion and being straightforward about it.
But the step that’s really helpful is connecting it to the big picture. Why are you making this critique? Why is it that you’re giving this feedback? Connect it to the bigger picture. I had, in one of my focus groups — this was in New York — a great brief example of that, when somebody used a phrase in an email, this was a millennial who wrote an email to a client, and he said, “Yes, I’ll take care of it, no problem,” and he used the term “no problem,” which all of us say all the time. This is not anything new.
But his boss didn’t like that he used the term “no problem,” and he said … He called, he actually picked up the phone, called the millennial, and said, “Thanks for getting that email out. Let’s avoid using the term ‘no problem.’ The reason I say ‘no problem,’ that I don’t like that, is because our client, I don’t want our client ever to think that anything would be a problem for him. He pays us a lot of money, and I just want him to know we’re on the work, so I just don’t like using that term.” But he drew the connection back to the client and why that term might be perceived differently or heard differently, and within seconds, that little edit had been understood by the millennial, and he said to me, “You know what, Ann? I never did it again.” So, timely, thoughtful, connecting it back to the big picture is helpful, and also thinking about the environment in which you’re providing the feedback. In person or verbally is best; email or over text, not so great.
|Chip Griffin:||As we reach the end of our time here, I guess the last thing I’d like to explore just for a minute or two is, how is it that we can do a better job of hiring millennials? How can we make sure that the individuals that we’re seeking to bring on board are a good fit? Are there clues we should be looking for? Are there things we need to share? Are there … Because obviously, different organizations require different things, and so how do you make that match, and is it different for finding millennial talent versus finding more senior talent?|
|Ann McCain:||That’s such a great question, and I think it’s something that everybody struggles with. My first piece of advice I always share with folks is to still be the organization that they are. It is not a requirement that you change your culture, or your mission, or the work that you’re doing, or frankly, even how you go about your hiring process, necessarily. Much of this comes down to that word we’re always fixated on, and that is communication. When you are seeking out hires for junior positions, and you know your pool of applicants are going to be millennials, when you are in front of them one-on-one, that’s the opportunity to put them to the test, to ask them about their expectations, what they are looking for.
We often don’t think we want to ask that question of someone who’s 22. Frankly, as a Gen Xer, it almost bugs me, because I said, “Nobody asked me what I wanted when I was applying for my first job. They simply told me what the job was, and decided if I was a good fit.” Well, we are still deciding about fit when we’re interviewing those millennials, but hearing a little bit about their expectations, about how they view their day-to-day work life, about how they think they’re going to about their professional life, opens a window for us that we get a better understanding about cultural fit.
But that’s not far enough. You still need to be able to talk about your company or your organization’s culture to the millennial to find out how far that person is willing to go to help, or to become part of your culture. Now, that doesn’t mean that you won’t have to make adjustments, because we see so many companies doing that this day, as far as what their office looks like, what their hours are like, but you can’t stop being the organization that you are. So being honest with someone up front is the first step, about what the culture’s like, and that includes if you have long hours, if you are expecting to keep people in the office for longer than they might anticipate, if it’s a job that doesn’t really function as well with people working remotely.
That’s got to be discussed up front, and it has to be mentioned so that you are setting the expectations from day one, and day one begins as soon as you start the hiring process with that person. So I think it’s when we start getting excited about having a conversation with someone, and we tend to sort of brush over all those particulars, and we think we’re interviewing just for personality, or whether we can see this person working for us. We need to dig down [inaudible 00:29:19] deeper, and don’t be afraid to really push someone to find out what kind of workplace they’re looking for.
|Chip Griffin:||Well, and hopefully this conversation has helped reset some of those expectations for both millennials and employers, so that we can all learn to just get along and be productive in the workplace. I appreciate you taking the time to share your insights. Can you tell folks where they can find you online?|
|Ann McCain:||Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Chip. This has been great. Welcome emails from folks at firstname.lastname@example.org, or they can visit my website, mccainstrategies.com.|
|Chip Griffin:||Great. Again, my guest has been Ann McCain. Thanks for joining us.|
|Ann McCain:||Thanks, Chip.|